Verified answer

Paul set a dangerous precedent at one point in his epistles, where he states that he directly contradicted the teachings of Jesus himself in order to further the mission of the Church.

Basically, this degenerated into a "do whatever you want" idea, in which Lying for Jesus is totally hunky-dory. You know, because the 10 Commandments aren't important and all that.

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Take a good look at the scriptures of all of the faiths. You will, I think, find a lot of instances where people have essentially made stuff up in order to support their religion.

When I was in Saudi Arabia with Desert Storm, an imam came by to talk to the troops. He was doing a good deed: he was explaining to us why Islam is superior to Christianity. In the course of the talk, he stated as facts things about Christianity that were obviously incorrect. He claimed that he was a former Jesuit, and understood Christianity very well. I had to conclude that either he hadn't been studying very hard while he was in school to be a Jesuit, or he had forgotten all that he had learned, or he never in fact was a Jesuit.

I didn't push the guy, so I don't know, but my assumption was that he felt it was okay to make stuff up in order to get people to convert. The lie justifies the good result.

Now, if you stop and think about it, we all, to varying degrees think that way: A person sings a song, and asks you how you liked it. You probably said it was fine, when in reality it was terrible, but what useful purpose is served by telling the person you didn't like it?

I bit my tongue for years when visiting my parents (and my grandparents!!!!) because of differing political views. They weren't going to change their mind, so what's the point in creating bad feeling?

Doctors lie to patients who are dying, telling them half-truths, believing that they ought not to take away hope. And who am I to judge??

The fact is, religious writers have been telling half-truths for milleniae! They think they are doing a good thing if they get someone to convert.

I have a degree in theology (M.Div.), and I have made an extensive study of the Bible. It is fascinating to read how the four Gospels treat the exact same topic. It happens that Mark seems to have been written first, and then Luke and Matthew followed, copying large amounts of material, either from Mark, or from some lost primary source scholars call Q (the German word "Quelle" [KVEL-uh] means "source"). It happens that whoever wrote Mark didn't know Judaism very well, and he screws up some basic doctrinal ideas. You can read along in Matthew (Matt was very knowledgeable about Judaica), and see Matt correcting Mark as he goes, either by fixing the glitch or just plain leaving out the offending text. Which means that Mark is making up a lot of stuff as he goes, since he doesn't really know much about first-century Jewish culture.

Also, you can see Matthew tossing in little scraps of information with the comment, for instance, "The talk that Jesus' body was stolen after he was crucified is not true, and here's why I know this."

One of Augustine's least popular writings is a comprehensive apology -- writing in detail about criticisms of Christian doctrine or scripture, with explanations why the criticisms have no basis. The trouble with the whole thing is that it is transparently obvious that Augustine is grasping at straws, just as modern-day writers are when they futilely try to reconcile the contradictions in scripture.

The reason I mention all of this stuff is to point out a fact that modern folks don't grasp: the idea of rational, logical argument to get to the truth, no matter what it may be, and to follow the truth wherever it may lead -- these are revolutionary concepts. People have no always thought that way, and in fact, people still do not. That is why it is so frustrating for a person who tries to discuss truth with a person with a literalistic faith.

You say, "Let's put all the facts out there, and then we can find our way to truth." They say, "Now hold on! I already know the truth! Let's just put out the facts, and then we'll fit them together to demonstrate that the truth I know is true."

You are essentially talking different languages. And if , as a logician would agree, rules of argument and logic are indeed a language, then the two of you truly are speaking literally different languages.

Your language works very well when facts are clearly demonstrable, but it stumbles when matters of religion are addressed. You assume that if something cannot be clearly proved, then it's wrong to assume it might be true, and this isn't something the faithful will agree with.

Their language is the language of faith. They believe because their forefathers have always believed such and so. They believe because others have kept the faith, and it has served them well.

Because you insist on only looking at truth proofs, you miss the whole dimension of a truth that is known through faith, and so for you it just drops out. You cannot validate it in your language, so you toss it out.

Likewise, the person who knows his faith is true will not even hesitate before he utterly rejects your points. He doesn't need to examine your reasoning; he already knows what the truth is. That's not up for discussion.

So the two of you go on and on, totally missing

I'm a Christian and I personally choose not to believe every single thing my religion tells me. I have a mind of my own. I can't say I've never lied in general, but I've never lied for my religion, and I've certainly never cheated or stolen, either in general or for my religion. NOr would I ever belong to a church I felt lied, cheated and stole.

judge not lest ye be judged, my friend. Try not to judge the many for the faults of the few. Not every single Christian is as you say you know.

Thanks for your concern. I pray that God will open your heart to receive His grace and the truth of His words. For opening your heart your mind will be opened to receive wisdom that you will understand His thoughts and purpose for your life. The more you keep on insulting and hating Christians the more we will be praying for you. God is great and loving that He won't let anyone of us go to hell. God loves you and so us Christians. Then you will know that this phony ideology will snatch you from the fiery furnace.

What lies have we told for our religion. My religion is against lying, cheating and stealing.

Not everyone who calls themself a Christian is really a Christian. A "Christian" who does not follow the teachings of Jesus, as recorded in the Bible, is a hypocrite. We also have been called judgmental. You are being extremely judgmental. Does that make you a Christian?

Dear Des:

I pray for you daily now. I can see that you are a very hurt and angry woman. Of course I cannot imagine what has made you so bitter, but what I do know is that this is not at all about rational discussion, debate, or argumentation. Like everyone else, you believe what you believe for many reasons, and some of those reasons are deep and psychological. I would like to try to talk to you about the baggage you carry and the burdens life has put on you. I will continue to pray for you.

(PS - On the "rational" side here, when you ask a man if he has stopped beating his wife, you are first of all kind of obligated to prove that he indeed has beaten his wife at some time in the past. Otherwise it's not a question, it's a slander. But of course you know that.)

I will go to your blog and see if there's a way I can communicate with you there. You seem to enjoy discussing how terrible Christianity is, so please don't miss the chance to tell me more. -- "Huck"

"No, we're not! We believe in Thor. Zeus is the all powerful. All hail Heru!" Now just take every name, of the three "gods" that I've just mentioned and replace them with "Jesus" and you'll understand how silly it all sounds.

I used to be christian but now I just live life knowing that you pay for everything on earth hell on earth is real I just live my life like whatever it doe sent matter cause Jesus loves me.

I don't lie for my religion it would be wrong ~BUT~ that's what keeps me in trouble with the fundies they lie like Persian Rugs!