Verified answer

It's all circular logic... Q:"Why do you believe in God?" A:"Because it says to in the Bible." Q:"Why do you believe in the Bible?" A:"Because it's the divine word of God." You can't argue logically against something that's complete nonsense. :)

(Christian here)....Your question has been posted many times before, worded differently, but the same question. And it's a valid question, and logical. (I'm not assuming u needed me to tell you that...just my thoughts) - My response is still the same also. Why do non-believers ask us questions about God and the Bible and Jesus and so on and so on ad infinitum ad nauseum, KNOWING we walk (live) by faith in the Word of God? Of course the Bible is our ultimate source for all issues! You already know this. We love to go to this Book of books and glean from its pages wisdom, for we believe that it is the only place where wisdom resides. I accept that you think it's nothing but a "collection of self-contradictory mythological stories and fables." I will not argue your view nor (of course) is your view uncommon. There is NO doubt in my mind that the majority of the world agrees with your stand rather than mine. However, I shall not be moved either. So why ask these "spiritual" questions, expecting us to answer with any other resource? I especially like the ones that start, "Okay christians, WITHOUT USING OR QUOTING THE BIBLE, answer this one:" What if I were to ask you a question and said, "Okay non-believer, USING THE BIBLE ONLY, prove to me that your stand on this or that issue is valid?" You would laugh out loud, as I often do at these others.

As to the "general" issue of the authority of scripture (as long as I'm here anyway), I submit to you that there are 2 very good (and I think valid) points to make in support of it: 1) Prophecy, ie, detailed accuracy of it and 100% fulfillment of it, up to the next event foretold (the rapture of the church). 2) Personal experience, that is to say, seeing through history and in present day what this Book has done to change the lives of so many...as well as its endurance through the ages.

Nuff said. Good question anyway, even if it has been asked before.

I'm not sure why they do that? A book, as you said, cannot be the proof for itself, because that would be arguing in a circle, for we cannot use the thing we are trying to prove as proof for itself! But, if it is true that every truth must be proven, i.e. that every truth needs proof to be substantiated, then we fall into a never ending infinite regression of causes (proofs) and effects (truths or potential truths) which is equally illogical!There must, somewhere exist a starting point, or unproven proof, more basic than reason itself. Matter of fact, this seems to be the defining factor in the cause of many rationalist, especially, and some empiricist too, either going mad or at least committing suicide or both! Listen to Chesterton: "Reason itself is a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert our thoughts have any relation to reality at all. If you are merely a skeptic, you must sooner or later ask yourself the question 'Why should anything go right, even observation and deduction? Why should not good logic be as misleading as bad logic?' They are BOTH movements in the brain of a bewildered ape!" (Orthodoxy 29). And for newly born...is not it at least possible for the judgment of God to be correlative with the actions of man? If woman really ate their babies and God doesn't exist, then that's what it must mean! So, isn't it a possibility that "God's judgment" meant "what happened"--isn't this what the ancients did--ascribe to God the events of their day? Natural selection, my man, is responsible for the death of ALL men!!! Is not God, according to you, merely a confusion of this fact!

1) I have rarely encountered Christians who think that such a statement WILL have efficacy with non-believers. What I DO hear is Christians explaining why THEY believe something that is in the Bible by using its words. Every Christian I've met would agree that how the Bible's words are processed will depend upon the individual. There is no presumption that it will immediately and "magically" cause universal assent. So your question is presumptive of your conclusion rather than the reality of the situation.

2) As to "explaining" to you, many Christians DO explain why THEY believe. But again, there is no assumption that what convinced them will convince you. Most Christians will have limited expectations in that regard because the Bible itself says that FEW will accept the message of the Bible. "Many are called but few are chosen" and also "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

As to the Bible's statements about its own truths, you presume that "self testimony" is without value. However, courts of law presume otherwise. Most every matter of dispute begins with the testimony of the parties in question. What the Bible has to say about its message is relevant. Whether you decide to accept it is a matter of free will. Indeed, Jesus said that his message would remain a mystery hidden from those who heard it EXCEPT for those to whom the Father revealed it. The disciples complained to Jesus about the difficulty of understanding what he said and seeing through the parables he told. But Jesus said that it was all part of the divine plan to restrict the message of the Kingdom for those to whom it was intended.

As to your personal biases about "self-contradictory mythology" etc., it was the study of such suppositions that led me from my very hardened atheism to a personal belief in the Bible's inerrancy and the Gospel of Jesus Christ. In fact, not only was it the fact that I found the alleged errors and contradictions were nothing of the sort. I began to wonder why skeptics had worked so hard to lie and distort their "lists of Bible contradictions" with little deceptive insertions of words that didn't appear in the original scripture and replacing the actual statements of scripture with their own rewordings of the passages. I kept asking myself, "If the Bible is so full of contradictions, why not just let the Bible speak for itself and contradict itself? Instead, you've "tweaked" the lists in order to produce contradictions that aren't there at all. That led me to realize that this was not an objective search for truth. No, I found it was a battle over whether or not a created being will tolerate the idea of being accountable to one's creator.

The Bible says that MANY will say, "Lord, Lord" even though they aren't followers of Jesus Christ at all. The counterfeits are common. Indeed, Jesus spoke of this in the parables of the sheep and goats and the wheat and the tares. Jesus said that the mixture of true and false believers is such that the two will not be separated until the final judgment when the sheep and the goats will be separated. The wheat and the tares (the weeds) will be separated then because they can be hard to tell apart before the fruit/grain is produced and harvested.

So in answer to your main question: The actual believers/followers/disciples of Jesus Christ will NOT assume that everyone will be convinced of anything by the scriptures. Only those called of God will respond to the scriptures. Indeed, in the parable of the sower, Jesus makes clear that those who hear the Gospel are of four types........and only one of the four actually responds affirmatively and lets the "seed" take root and produce and multiply in abundance. (You probably already know the parable and how some fell on hard ground and other grains fell where the birds gobbled up the seed and nothing grew.) So the Bible is very clear that MOST will reject what the Bible says.

Therefore, genuine followers of Jesus will indeed USE the Bible by allowing it to speak for itself but they will not expect everyone to respond to it. Indeed, even the Bible itself speaks of the issue of casting pearls before swine -- and that pigs will not recognize the value of the pearls and will trample them in the mud.

So don't assume that people share the Bible's truths with others because they expect an automatic change or recognition of authority. No, it is purely because the Word of God has power to accomplish God's purposes -- but no follower of Jesus should claim to know what those purposes might be in a particular situation. But in general believers know that the message will be rejected and that only the called will fully respond to its authority. (And because believers don't know who those chosen will be, it makes sense to share the Bible's truths with all.)

You've about answered your own question, haven't you? We use the Bible as a reference for our faith. Would it be more objective to use rather subjective bases, like feelings or experiences, to explain faith or the FACTS and ACCURATE DATA portrayed in the Bible.

From your question, also, I gather that you don't want facts or even intelligent debate. Your whole question is an argument, saying in so many words, try to prove your point so I can shoot it down. Sorry, dude, no more from this fundie.

Because God's Word reads you. It tells you that you are a sinner and that you need somebody to take care of your sins. That is what the Lord Jesus Christ did for you on the cross. He died for your sin. The Word of God convicts you that you are going to hell when you die if you reject the Lord Jesus Christ and what He did for you. Hebrews 4: 12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

I suggest that it is because they are Christians, and have accepted the Bible as the ultimate authority of their religious belief.

Because they are trying to convince you, and it is a hard job for them ... and they are trying to give a reference to you ... and ... finally, you ask the question here ... mmm, too simple and too plain yeah ... this is so simple a truth that you will not like it ... huhuhuhhh

2 Corinthians 4:4

4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

EXACTLY- it's circular logic. The bible is correct because the bible says that it is correct.