One of the Jehovah’s Witnesses recently wrote:
“We have articles about people who are physicists and engineers that are Jehovah's Witnesses. Nowhere are we told to avoid science. An educated Christian is a joy to Jehovah.”
On the other hand, another Jehovah’s Witness wrote,
“We do not pursue the degree of education to needed to become a scientist, because Jesus told his followers to put spiritual interests first at Matthew 6:33. Those who are scientists generally became scientists before becoming Jehovah's Witnesses.”
How can these two statements be reconciled?
Update:@ Conundrum: You have a penchant for cluttering up my questions by inserting your own, which is in clear violation of the Y/A TOS. It’s actually ironic that you block me from answering *your* questions, but feel fine in leaving your little pigeon droppings on mine. If you have general questions, then use ten points & post them. If you have a personal question for me, then email me. I’d be happy to answer. But if you can’t or won’t respond to my posted question, then simply stay away.
Answers & Comments
Verified answer
As another answer points out, the two statements are not in conflict. Many of those of the Witnesses who have degrees, did so before becoming Witnesses. And since they are viewed by the world as "men of letters", their decision to become Witnesses shows that there is no conflict with the science field that they have degrees in.
That is one way the first quote you cite is "a joy to Jehovah". It doesn't make them any more special than another Witness who made the decision to go another course, since these too are "a joy to Jehovah".
Some of the talents of these "degree" Witnesses have proven to a true help. One example is the MEPS language system that we have for printing. Some Computer Scientists from Japan helped with the technology development, so now we can reach over 400 languages, that covers almost 99% of the people of the earth.
First of all, I would like to read the whole emails to see the context of the statements. A snippet here of what someone says doesn't prove the context. Anyway, I don't really care what anyone's opinion is, in and of itself. Even Witnesses give their own opinions.
But actually the two statements can be reconciled. First of all, Many JWs have gone through college before becoming Witnesses. Secondly, many Witnesses excel in High School and know more about some issues than college grads. I have only a high school degree but I talked with a nurse who didn't know we aren't still making moon missions.
My husband takes an interest in some things and knows a lot about them. He has only a G.E.D. He was challenged by someone, when he gave some input on the subject if he had a degree in the subject and he said "No, but I read about it a lot."
JWs are very well read. First of all they are well read in the Bible. An educator once said "A Bible education is more important than a secular education." Our magazines and books deal with science, history, current events, etc.
We have a theocratic school that teaches public speaking. We have programs in some countries that teach the illiterate to read.
I let my grades slide in high school and had gaps in my knowledge. Through my studying of our publications I filled in the gaps and have learned about science, history, etc. Now I know people will say "Yeah, but your publications shape your view of science." I always respond: "How do you know that your professors haven't shaped your ideas." Remember, the Bible says "The wisdom of the world is foolishness with God."
Interestingly, Rustic my friend, you agree that many are being led astray by the wisdon of men and the science taught in college because you have told me you don't believe in evolution.
Those scientists mentioned by the one person probably pursued their education before becoming Witnesses. And we do indeed have a love for science and we read about it all of the time, it is just that many of us don't become accredited for it.
Russ: Do you feel that Jehovah's Witnesses should not be educated, or that they not educated enough? Whose standards are you judging the witnesses by?
Consider this.
From the very beginning, Christianity had been a religion that primarily attracted lowly, humble people. Jesus’ 12 apostles—the foundation of his church—were not taken from among the educated scribes and Pharisees. Rather, they were from the working class, four being fishermen by trade. They were men who were viewed by the religious leaders as “unlettered and ordinary,” meaning that their education was elementary and not from the schools of higher learning. (Acts 4:13) The “lettered” scribes and Pharisees downgraded the long-awaited Messiah, mocking his teachings and his followers. They took the attitude that ‘no one of importance follows Jesus.’
You seem to be implying this same way of thinking Russ.Does Russ feel that a person who has cerebral palsy or someone who suffers from autism is NOT educated enough to be a joy to God?
Stop being picky and silly- you much more than that... l hope.
* l do not give out my email to anyone l do not know Russ, and l do not know you.On a more positive note l will grant you your wish.l will stay away from your questions from this point on. Goodbye.
It is a question of priorities.
Jesus said:
(Matthew 6:31-33) So never be anxious and say, ‘What are we to eat?’ or, ‘What are we to drink?’ or, ‘What are we to put on?’ 32 For all these are the things the nations are eagerly pursuing. For YOUR heavenly Father knows YOU need all these things. 33 “Keep on, then, seeking first the kingdom and his righteousness, and all these [other] things will be added to YOU.
There are many Jehovah's witnesses who are VERY good at a lot of things, lawyers, doctors, scientists,computer programmers, and many of them got their skills in college before, or after, they became Jehovah's Witnesses. We have in several of our recent magazines articles of current scientists who described their love of science and their relationship with Jehovah. There have also been articles about scientists in the past who demonstrated faith in a Creator.
At our headquarters, for instance, our brothers developed a unique software system. It is called MEPS, an abbreviation that stands for Multilanguage Electronic Phototypesetting System. It is a system that Jehovah’s Witnesses themselves have developed for getting written material published quickly in many languages. They developed MEPS because nowhere in the world was such a system available for publishing in the many languages in which they print their Bible literature.
However, the first commandment is to love Jehovah with everything that we are, including our whole mind. Matthew 22:36-37 And our first priority is to please Jehovah, and to seek the kingdom and his righteousness. Anything else has to go at least third - I am counting our families as second. Jehovah will take care of us, and will more than provide opportunity to develop our talents in the new system to come, when this promise will be fulfilled:
(Psalm 145:16) You are opening your hand And satisfying the desire of every living thing.
In the cases I've read, it was a scientist who became a witness. And yes as the creator and first educator Jehovah does enjoy his servant being knowledgeable about his works. Everyone isn't going to have the same career or education level. Earning a phd,while nice, is very time consuming. As Jehovah's people we seek to use our time in the here and now to serve our god to the fullest, not presuming to have time later to dedicate to our maker. Seeking the kingdom first is the most important thing and does require a sacrifice but when you dedicate yourself to God, you vow to carry out his will first not your own. Many choose trades or other less time consuming education. This proves to enable many to follow the example of Jesus, putting the ministry first.
You just showed one way yourself: they pursued the degree before they became Witnesses of Jehovah. Did you not read what yourself wrote?
As to any other way, the first poster noted that we are not told to avoid science, that does not necessarily require, however, that we pursue science as our main career or objective and make it central to our lives. Science is the understanding of how God's creation works, and so taking time to understand it is fine. But that does not mean we all have to go and get doctorates and Ph.D's and whatnot.
The problem lies not in their statements, but in your absolutism. In your mind we have to either ignore science or we all have to go get Ph.D's, and neither is absolutely true. The problem lies not with them, but with you. Straighten out your own thinking, and understanding will come quite easily to you. But then, I get the feeling you'd rather not take that time, since it takes away from your time to come up with foolishness such as this.
"Abel...Noah...Abraham...Sarah...Isaac..... Ba'rak, Samson, Jephthah, David...Samuel and the different prophets...have been in choose, in tribulation, under ill-therapy; and [the international] became not worth of them. And yet a number of those, even inspite of the incontrovertible fact that that they had witness borne to them with the aid of their faith..." Hebrews 11:4-39 "So, then, by using fact we've so large a cloud of [witnesses] surrounding us..." Hebrews 12:one million "as a result, while they (first century Christians apostle Peter and John) had given the [witness] thoroughly and had spoken the comprehend Jehovah, they became returned to Jerusalem, and that they went affirming the coolest information to many villages of the Samaritans." Acts 8:25 "he (the Christian apostle Paul) defined the subject to them via bearing thorough [witness] relating to the dominion of God and via employing persuasion" Acts 28:23 "those issues I command you, which you love one yet another. If the international hates you, you already know that it has hated me earlier it hated you...Now considering which you at the instant are not component to the international, yet I even have chosen you out of the international, in this account the international hates you." John 15:17-19 thank you for the practice of self belief in our clarification of Scripture Lone. yet enable us to constantly undergo in techniques that Jehovah God is the guy who's actual, and we as his Witnesses, previous and cutting-edge, are in basic terms scholars of his. "enable (Jehovah) God be stumbled on actual" Romans 3:4
TIME BEFORE & TIME AT & TIME AFTER CHRIST JESUS ASCENDED
Matt.1:1-17, N. T. sends us back to O. T. people's time,
forward to Jesus was age 2, Matt.2:11, ends O. T. years,
age 33 1/2, Jesus ascended, then time after Jesus[and
his reign], that adds this time onto the age of the
universe.
Age 0000 - 0930, years (0130 - 0930)* Adam #1. Gen.5:3,5.
Age 0105 - 0912, years (0130 - 1042)* Seth #2. Gen.5:6,8.
Age 0090 - 0905, years (0235 - 1140)* Enos #3. Gen.5:9,11.
Age 0070 - 0910, years (0325 - 1235)* Cainan #4. Gen.5:12,14.
Age 0065 - 0895, years (0395 - 1290)* Mahalaleel #5. Gen.5:15,17.
Age 0162 - 0962, years (0460 - 1422)* Jared # 6. Gen.5:18,20.
Age 0065 - 0365, years (0622 - 0987)* Enoch #7. Gen.5:21,23.
Age 0187 - 0969, years (0687 - 1656)* Methusaleh #8. Gen.5:25,27.
Age 0182 - 0777, years (0874 - 1651)* Lamech #9. Gen.5:28,31.
Age 0000 - 0502, years [1056 - 1558] Noah to Shem born.
Age 0502 - 0600, years (1558 - 1656] FLOOD YEAR. Gen.7:6.
Age 0600 - 0950, years (1656 - 2006)* Noah #10. Gen.9:28,29.
Age 0100 - 0600, years (1658 - 2158)* Shem #11. Gen.11:10,11.
Age 0035 - 0438, years (1658 - 2096)* Arphaxad #12. Gen.11:12,13
Age 0030 - 0433, years (1693 - 2126)* Salah #13. Gen.11:14,15.
Age 0034 - 0464, years (1723 - 2187)* Eber #14. Gen.11:16,17.
Age 0030 - 0239, years (1757 - 1996)* Peleg #15. Gen.11:18.19.
Age 0032 - 0239, years (1787 - 2026)* Rue #16. Gen.11:20,21.
Age 0030 - 0230, years (1819 - 2049)* Serug #17. Gen.11:22,23,
Age 0029 - 0148, years (1849 - 1997)* Nahor #18. Gen.11:24,25.
Yrs 0222 + 1656= flood= 1878, Terah #19, + 130, Abraham born 2008.
Age 0130 - 0205, years (1878 - 2083)* Terah #19, died. Gen.11:32.
Age 0000 - 0075, years [2008 - 2083] COVENANT-1983 BCE, Matt.1:1-17;
Age 0075 - 0100, years [2083 - 2108] Abraham to Isaac. Gen.21:5.
Age 0100 - 0175, years (2008 - 2183)* Abraham #20 dies, Gen.25:7,9.
Age 0000 - 0005, years [2108 - 2113] Isaac heir. Gen.15:13,16,18.
Age 0005 - 0060, years (2113 - 2168) Isaac & Jacob. Gen.25:26.
Age 0060 - 0180, years (2168 - 2288)* Isaac #21, dies, Gen.35:28,29.
Age 0000 - 0130, years [2168 - 2298] 70 in Egypt. Gen.47:9. 46:27.
Age 0130 - 0147, years (2298 - 2315)* Jacob #22, dies, Gen.47:28.
Age 0040 - 0110, years (2298 - 2368)* Joseph 23rd person[Gen.50:24-26].
END: Book of Genesis 2368th year after Adam was created last[1698 BCE].
Now at 2013 CE and the reign of Christ more near to, Rev.20:1-6, to be 1000
years in the future, what good is all or any type of education, if none have
the ability explain the time given from Gen.1:26 to Rev.21:1-5, and that God
alone knows the day and the hour from Gen.1:26, to Rev.20:1-6?
How much education does one need to understand time from Gen.1:26, to
Rev.20:1-6, less the day and the hour? Put a few dozen people to work on
it. I think the problem is, they do not believe the bible in the first place.
They're told to avoid science, since it disproves the bible stories when taken literally. The creation myth is disproven by astronomy and biology. A global flood is disproved easily by geology and biology... and show me an astronomer who thinks the sun literally stopped in the middle of the sky for a day.
Jehovah only likes Gilead Bible School graduates.