Verified answer

Perfect example of the kind of trait i think is socially devalued, not because it relates to 'manliness' per se, but because the notion of 'risk' being a socially positive behaviour is being factored out.

As more and more people become indoor workers, and take their recreation (as we do) indoors, 'risk' is increasingly becoming the porvince of the select few ~ athletes and people employed in occupations such as firefighters.

And while these peple are lauded and admired, most of us ~ and children especially ~ are very actively discouraged from taking risks.

In western cultures we are increasingly "cotton woolled" at every level, not just physically but more and more protected from the uglinesses of ordinary life ~ where meat comes from, what happens when people die, how people actually live when they are poor.

I doubt it can continue indefinitely, although it's possible that one day going outside will be considered as terrifying as it was for the wealthy in the 1700s and we will become creatures of the indoors until a new social trend emerges.

The notion of manliness, like the rest of society seems to be in flux.

It's possible some typically 'manly' traits are undervalued, and these may have a resurgence, or not ~ it's happened before (historically) and it's likely it will happen again.

The same is true for most established 'roles', but it's also necessary that roles, as well as tools and ideas, change with changing circumstances.

Otherwise we'll be joining the dinosaurs, no matter how manly or womanly we are.

~*~*~*~

I'd have to ask what 'manliness' is before I could answer in any detail, because my idea of a manly man and Mr Mansfield's might differ somewhat.

I do think some traits which have been considered typically masculine are undervalued, but i believe they are undervalued socially, not specifically because they are 'manly'.

It seems so. Not only is manliness undervalued but so is femininity.

Some people who hate the constraints that society historically put on gender are the same people who hate anything that doesn't fit within the more androgynous, gender neutral constraints that have been newly constructed.

In undervaluing masculinity we've also undervalued femininity. Homogeneity is the new norm and anything other than that is undervalued.

Yes, society has not just undervalued but completely dismantled masculinity, handing us a bunch of confused men, who don't know if they're to be confident and rational or sensitive and emotional.

Now, people associate masculinity with negative things like crime, violence and prisons. Feminity has become the norm.

Sorry if I sound too harsh, but everyone today is expected to think emotionally and cry for anything that upsets them. Manliness isn't completely a social construct, like feminists have made society believe. It's just generally harder to make men think emotionally and cry. It's natural.

We're doing half the population no favours by expecting them to adhere to a standard, be it masculine or feminine. People say forcing manliness on all men isn't fine, and I agree. But what's happening is that feminity is being forced upon them, and any sign of cold, logical rationality is instantly demonized.

Women keep wanting men who are rational but sensitive, confident but emotional, and so on. It's just impossible.

What we ought not to do is force a certain standard of behaviour on people. Take them as they are! Let everything be natural. It isn't OK to force boys to hide their feelings all the time, and nor is it OK to force them to always think with their heart and not their head.

If he turns out sensitive, OK. If he turns out cold and rational, OK. Both have their pros and cons, and neither is perfect. We should never make the mistake of putting everything in black and white and saying being one way is completely wrong.

Why can't we let men be?

Agree

perhaps cliffy... you could give a brief summation of mr. manfields thoughts.

so... without googling... and begging forgiveness of my own ignorance... i'll opine for you just a bit.

i think the very idea of manliness is shifting in our society. what we have is a "kinder, gentler" and somewhat more thoughtful notion of what it means to be a man. and i don't think the new definition is undervalued at all.

mmm... i see i was too late in my suggestion. . that acknowledged... i think men are reconsidering the validity of such risk taking. it really only serves single men who wish to be "noticed".

What I believe is that the traditional definition of "manliness" is too narrow for 50% of the population to have to force itself into.

I think it needs to stop being valued. I hate that men feel they can't cry or show emotion without being called gay or wuss or something. I think it's be better for everyone if men weren't expected to be so manly.

No.

It is rather devalued and is considered the source of social unrest, teeming prisons and melting Wall Street.

I adore men. Sure, I find lots of silly traits and characteristics that are stereotypically male - but no more so than a man could find with women if he went looking...

Sadly, our society has discredited them for simply being who they are...

Undervalued, I think it's derided.