1 Kings 7:23 And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.
Update:mrglass08,
This is not about the message of the Bible. It is about the Doctrine of Biblical Literalism. If I were discussing the message of the Bible, I would not have used the word "literal" in the question.
Update 3:If literalism is not supposed to mean absolute, why do apologists sometimes go through mathematical contortions to make the numbers add up?
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Sure, but I will ask you this first. What does it matter to message of the Bible?
Ok, but you misunderstanding Biblical literalism. There are a few ways you can look at this, the first is that, in the original language, the same symbols represent both letters and numbers and when you look at it this way it works as both a word and as a way of saying 3.14 and so you have pi. another way is from where are the measurements taken if the part about the diameter is from the inside edge and the circumference from the outside edge it would also be mathematically correct. Then you have the common sense approach, by mathematics you can not have a circle where the circumference is exactly three times the diameter and so it is understood that it is not an exact figure but a rounded one that was nearest for simplicity in writing. You need to remember that the bible is not a mathematical text and so numbers and mathematical ideas need to be taken with an understanding that it is not the focus of the text. It would be like saying why does a chemistry book not have an accurate portrayal of history, the history is a secondary concern and so is not expected to be the same depth as a history book.
I'm not a Biblical literalist (let alone a Christian), but I am a mathematician, and here are some things I've heard about the passage:
1) Some literalists have argued that "brim to brim" refers to the INNER edges (the inner circumference of the "bowl" if you will), and the 30 cubit measurement was the circumference on the OUTSIDE of the rim. So the diameter of the whole thing was 30/π cubits, but the inner section had a diameter of 10 cubits. That means the rim or thickness of the bowl was (30/π - 10)/2 = 15/π - 5 = (15 - 5π)/π cubits thick.
2) Then there's the argument of "Well π is approximately equal to 3, so the measurements must have just been approximate." Which I say is fine. The Bible is supposed to be a book on religious inspiration, not a document of science or mathematics. Then again, try getting a creationist to agree with that sentiment!
I guess the phrase you do the math takes on a new dimension. Of course we sent voyager into space with pi as a fundamental basis for establishing communication. What if the civilization that discovers the probe is loaded with fundies? Perhaps this will save us.
What is the value of pi? It's not 3. It's not 3.14. It's not 3.14159 either. How many significant digits would satisfy you? Eventually, it would need to be rounded. Rounding is not an error.
Another possibility is that it was not perfectly round.
In either case, it doesn't seriously harm the credibility of the Bible.
Mike
Ad hominem arguments and suggestion that the Bible is not all the word of God (or it would be exact). Interesting.
Expect lots of ad hoc speculation and dismissive nonsense saying that it's trivial to the bible's ultimate message...
Or maybe that pi was originally just 3, but Original Sin caused it to get bigger and bigger until it reached 3.14159...just like we see today...
and your purpose is what... it would seem your only motivation is as found in the atheists How to Bash Christians handbook... this is not intended to be a "scientific" detailed description... and it is of little to no consequence what the "exact" specifications were.... especially considering that the exact length of a cubit was not at all standardized at that time....
typical Christian bashing post... and an old and worn out one at that....
There are simply people in this world who are impervious to logic. Why else would there be a Flat Earth Society? This question simply will not persuade your target audience.
Really don't see what this passage has to do with Pi. I am sure that the measurements were far from exact. Ever hear of rounding. 3.14........ rounds very well to 3.
My only hope is that you don't reject God based on your desire for exact measurements.
So what was the first ancient civilization that used the decimal point instead of just whole numbers?
Hint c.300BC.